» secret wars
very strange result last night at secret wars, will post some pics when i get over the shock.
further to the post, there have been comments, click on them below, and dont miss out, be good to know what people think. They open up a lot of questions about what a battle really is, what criteria the winner should be judged on, should a crowd vote be worth 1/3 of the final score, who and how many judges etc….. dont just sit there throw down some thoughts, the second comment from mike has links to the final shots, which i couldnt get, cheers mike for adding them here. Ask your friends, send the link to others , what do you all think? battle battle people!!!!!!!
if you dont know what Secret Wars is then, the idea is to cats battle in Black and White only, for 1 1/2 hrs in front of a crowd, on the same size board, no sketches allowed in the final, just straight up attackage. The winner is chosen by 2 judges and one decibel reading crowd vote. There was £1000 at stake, plus other good stuff.
some kind of disclaimer here, about DarkDaze does not endorse all the stuff below but had to let it all ride in the fairness of debate….ya get what I’m saying innit….
Secret Wars
wen’s final: kick in the nuts
Originally uploaded by mikesten
odisy’s final: art fag got served
Originally uploaded by mikesten
March 1st, 2008 at 2:27 pm
i wona see the pics. cant wait to see them. secret fix wars
March 3rd, 2008 at 6:09 am
I think the result polarised a lot of opinion. Personally, I preferred Wen’s piece (I would – he’s my bro), but I thought Odisy’s was sick too. Here’s the the problem as I see it: Odisy did a straight up graf battle piece; Wen’s was an illustrator’s battle piece. Both were well executed so you’ll prefer the one that fits your style. I happen to prefer the illustration. Even if you don’t agree, you’ve got to give Wen credit – he tailored his piece to Odisy – caricature, references to previous SW stuff, humour etc, while Odisy’s could have applied to anyone. He pulled out one of his characters and then added a couple of little jibes down the bottom. It was good but it didn’t have as much thought in it.
Here are links for comparison:
http://flickr.com/photos/mikesten/2305468630/in/set-72157604025818866/
http://flickr.com/photos/mikesten/2304657529/in/set-72157604025818866/
Loving your stuff on Flickr by the way!
March 3rd, 2008 at 7:02 am
Dunno Mike – read your comment, started to write a quite lengthy ‘Wen’s is OK but… bla bla’ bit but no, Odisy’s is far better, even a blind goat could see that.
March 3rd, 2008 at 7:23 am
hmmm mike i think a lot of people will disagree with you on this, especially on this site. I would like to think we can both be objective but truth is we are probably biased in opposite ways. My biggest issue tho is that Wen has come away as the champion but I know nothing of his style, I cant see what makes Wen tick, dont get his persona, he has crafted an alter ego, adopted a moniker etc but not sure what it really is, and the bottom half of his pic isnt so much a reference to previous odisie battles but a straight bite without any development of his own. The champ should surely have style for miles…..
But i can understand you defending him, what i would prefer tho is if it didnt come down to a situation like this. A bigger panel of ‘known’ judges for the final and moving the crowd right back so all judges can see both clearly would help.
Odisie knew that the home crowd vote would always be Wens but 4 judges in my opinion would completely open up the fairness of the comp. Also I dont know what the difference is between an illustrators battle and a graf battle- its a straight up battle thats all. I think this debate will run and run tho, feel free to holler back, be interesting to know what everyone else thinks.
DD.
March 3rd, 2008 at 7:41 am
I think Wen is disabled and has hand aids. His technique is novice standard. Take a close look at his characters. The lines are shit. The diss is weak.
WEN GOT RAPED!!!
March 3rd, 2008 at 7:58 am
neee naw neee naw nee naw
Odisy just got robbed
March 3rd, 2008 at 8:33 am
@DD:
Yep, I’m not expecting much support round here! A lot of the writers I talked to on the night preferred Odisie and I can see why, I just don’t happen to agree. Wen’s style isn’t really street, it’s illustration done big, with more influence from comics and cartoons than the New York subway kings. Bearing in mind where the comp took place – Shoreditch village, full of designers not graffers – you can understand them liking what they’re (and I’m) more familiar with. To my eyes Wen’s use of perspective, characters, varied lines and humour makes his style as distinctive as anyone in the competition. I’m sure you see it differently though and that’s what I mean by illustration vs graf… There’s a clear line in the sand between the likes of Osidie, Alfa, Teck, Inky and Inkfetish on the one hand and Wen, 5683, Mr Shrew and Okkle on the other. The styles don’t directly compare. It’s hard for anyone to be objective when judging them against one another.
So you’re right that the format is flawed. Having just two judges isn’t fair on anyone visiting from out of town and I understand that he feels robbed.
March 3rd, 2008 at 9:06 am
no doubt in my mind and i think even a parshaly sighted person could of seen the clear winer, its a straight up battle and the the best piece wins?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/younion/2305016901/
March 3rd, 2008 at 9:25 am
Wen didn’t even spell fashion right, I reckon he is a good illustrator but Odisy obviously won. Od’s piece, in my opinion, had funnier and more personal jibes than wen’s seeing as anybody could get kicked in the nuts whereas odisy’s scrawl collective book with a bite chunk out of it and the banksy tattoo on Wen’s ass were genius.
March 3rd, 2008 at 9:35 am
Also looks like Wen didn’t even leave enough room on the trick book cover for the words.
March 4th, 2008 at 3:22 am
Going to Shoreditch and calling someone an ARTFAG is bound to get the locals’ backs up! I reckon he lost just ‘cos he used that word and they all got a bit insecure.
March 4th, 2008 at 5:06 am
@Mike S.
I just have to clear a few things up with you. Ewen is a relative nobody. You can trawl the internet looking for his stuff and find nothing apart from his own self congratulatory postings. As an illustrator his lines are weak,shakey and unconfident. His perspective doesn’t follow consistent vanishing points. His characters are poor. I really didn’t realise that was meant to be a caricature of me. Caricature’s, by their pure definition are supposed to bare some similarities to the person their meant to be. Putting Ronnie Barker’s glasses on a average character doesn’t make it a caricature of me.
The small amount of Ewen’s work I found on the internet was just a generic regurgitation of so many other mediocre part time street artists. I couldn’t tell who he had more posters of on his bedroom wall; Will Barras or Mr.Jago. Very, very average. I say this from the standpoint of a professional illustrator.
The whole Secret Rules competition is messed up. There was a lack of consistancy throughout. Experiments were conducted on the format during the main event rather than a showcase for example. For someone like me who’s not from London there is an unfair disadvantage. For every other competitor they have 3 possible votes. Only 2 were ever available to me. The crowd vote was impossible for me to win. To get as far as I did with that handicap is an achievement but to be “beaten” by someone of Ewen’s standard is just insulting. If exactly the same pieces had been done at a venue in my hometown the result would’ve gone my way, no question. Or even on mutual ground. However I doubt Ewen would have shown up.
The judging is the equivalent of a football match where the away team win 4-0 but the result is left to the fans to decide and of course the home fans go for their team.
Anyway, it’s all horse shit. Hope all your children have cancer and you die of cunt aids you shit stains!!
March 4th, 2008 at 5:17 am
…mostly….I would just like to remind everyone this is a family program, ringing up and saying “fuck” at Five Star is not clever….. erm basically I mean maybe keep the kid/cancer/death insults turned down a notch…… mostly…. DD.
March 4th, 2008 at 5:59 am
Point taken.
March 4th, 2008 at 8:22 am
who really cares?
March 4th, 2008 at 10:54 am
Before that last rant I might have had some sympathy with odisy. Now, I think he’s too far up himself and needed to be taken down. Wherever. London or Brum it needed to happen. So Wen’s a beginner. Good on him – so nerves on the night and no spellcheck gave a few spelling mistakes – so what – just look back at some of these comments.
The game was played according to the rules as they stand – maybe some lessons to be learned here, and maybe comparing two such different skills doesn’t work in this context.
Well done Wen – DLTBGYD – take your win and enjoy it, maybe you won’t get another chance if they change the rules next year.
Odisy – get over it, you were beaten on the night and showed your nasty nature as well. Won’t be screaming for you next time.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:07 am
Not that you care!!!
March 4th, 2008 at 11:19 am
yo jego people do care, or at least have an opinion, thats why they are leaving comments. Its probably my fault for giving an arena for people to chuck their thoughts on to, they all go thru to me for moderation/approval first- but I figured there is no point censoring when I had asked people to say what they feel. But things always get rowdy on the internet, forums etc and attitudes/comments more inflamed and exaggerated, its the nature of the slightly anonymous beast. There are some pretty well thought out observations from most tho, except for the mud, or blood and guts slinging, so its kinda been worthwhile. I will probably lock this one down soon tho. Cheers all.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
Jego you prick. No one’s taken me down. Someone’s robbed a grand off me. The whole attitude of “he’s a beginner, give him a chance” is lame. This “who’s got the most boyfriends competition?” is lame. I entered it for the money only. I don’t need to be the champion of the chattering classes. I’m part of something a lot more honest.
However, I do like your “won’t be screaming for you next time” comment. Makes you sound like a weedy faggot.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
You’re right about the well thought out observations, my last comment was just for odisy, and I really don’t think he’ll care.
Opinions on the other hand do have value and somewhere to air them … invaluable.
Good on yer …
Still think that rant of odisy’s was juvenile tho’…
March 4th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Oooooooh – praps he does care XX
March 4th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
it baffles me how a competition where a grand is at stake only has two judges, Surely the point of having judges at all is to have three (or more), you can’t just have two random peoples opinions then a screaming crowd… Just a thought.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
who really cares? odisie was going at it from the p.o.v of it being similar to a graff battle (where the idea would probably be to gun the opponent) and from what i can see, ods gunned wen more than wen gunned ods.
but fuck it, and fuck secret wars.
who saw what zadok did in the semi down in soton? “graffiti is dead….secret wars killed it”.
March 4th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
purely a commercial break for everyone…
okay now carry on………
March 4th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
having stumbled upon this post by co-incidence and seeing the final pieces and then reading the comments made i thought the winner seems clear, odisy’s piece is stronger by far both in terms of skill, style and humour,
i get point of wens piece but its like alot of similar street art style illustration, a supposedly grand statement thats about as amusing as a pint of marmite on a monday morning loosely justified with a substandard drawing,,,
this has nothing to do with begginers, or ego’s,,, artistically and concept wise wen got burnt,,,
,
March 5th, 2008 at 12:08 am
“”Friendly competition
Once the concept was nailed, Guy floated the idea. Initially the concept didn’t go down well – graffiti artists being a pretty laid-back bunch. But once the friendly nature was explained, artists saw the crowd-pulling potential for a live design event. As Guy says, “No-one takes it too seriously and that’s really important because it’s meant to be a fun night. It doesn’t matter if you go out in the first round.”
“It’s all about crowd involvement, and for Series 2 we’re going to up that,” says Guy. “We’ve got plenty of new ideas, such as Weapon of Choice, where the artists get to choose a weapon and the crowd gets to choose a concept. We’re trying to mix it up and find fresh people, because the whole point of Secret Wars is to give up-and-coming artists a bit of exposure.””
Quote from Terry and Guy describing the concept of SW
March 5th, 2008 at 12:26 am
And a bit more
“Everyone ends up as a winner,” says Guy democratically. “Of all the 16 people that have played, everyone’s had a good time and gained some exposure, which was the point. It’s more of a show than a competition – it’s just got that battle edge to keep it lively.”
Maybe the beast has outgrown the concept – if so then rules of engagement need to be laid down before the next series
Whatever. It’s all about keeping a sense of perspective and being graceful in defeat
Isn’t it?
March 5th, 2008 at 3:25 am
You have to say, WEN is just more pleasing to the eye, the other one looks like a mess…simple really…Wen Is King.
March 5th, 2008 at 3:53 am
Move on mate. Let go. No one gives a shit what you think you poetry reading, insense burning, smoke blower.
March 5th, 2008 at 4:16 am
Ok i think it is time for me to enter this juicy debate
regarding last Fridays battle – good to see all you people have strong opinions…It shows the concept of Secret Wars is working!
I would like to state (quote me on this) that every battle / series we do – “us” the organisers learn something different about what we have created each time. Jego is right in it has turned into a beast that needs taming…and those old quotes prove it! Those old quotes from me are out of date and were said in the early days of the concept. We did not know or visualise how big this whole live art battle movement would grow
ITS F##KING HUGE NOW!
I agree with the guys that said maybe more judges should be put forward for the final because big money is at stake – i will be putting this forward at the next 1/10 meeting (where all organisers meet)…I don’t benefit any more for Wen (an illustrator) winning and nor do i benefit anymore if Odisy were to win…I just wanted to see a fair fought out battle!!
JUST FOR THE RECORDS THE JUDGES WERE EXPERIENCED PEOPLE FROM OUR INDUSTRY – ANDY (EDDING) & JAY (UK/ JAPANESE MAGAZINE / ARTIST)
Secret Wars is now Global and is slowly becoming a Worldwide design freestyle competition…Things over here are evolving and from all your feedback and past battles rules and regulations will be tweaked…But all in all we are pushing for bigger prizes and better events for artists and crowd…Hope everyone understands our viewpoints
We see this as the start (early stage) of something much larger – I am trying to fund a Worldwide battle, where artists from across the globe come to battle it out for prizes of £5000 and more..Watch this space!
Both artists on the night were amazing in my eyes, aside from whos piece was better on the night…I think both deserve the crown – as they both smashed there way to the final in their own way, using very different battle tactics / styles…
Who should enter Secret Wars? I see this as a platform / stage for any type of artist to enter (regardless of background and style) – TAKE IT HOW YOU WANT, BUT IT WAS AND NEVER WILL BE A GRAFFITI BATTLE – IT JUST HAS SOME GRAFF ARTISTS INVOLVED…GRAFFITI IS NOT DEAD AND SECRET WARS NEVER KILLED IT, IT LIVES ON IN MANY AREAS AND ALWAYS WILL DO!!
Basically Secret Wars is a stage where “you” the artist can jump up and show off what you are about, showcasing your artistic talent in a battle environment. It will win you headlines and it will pay you well (if you win)…it will also draw conversation your way (good and bad) – But is your opportunity to shine!
Its a simple concept – grab an edding black marker pen and draw the best battle piece you can create, on the huge white wall – in your own style and to your best abilities!
I know both artists personally and again would like to thank them for having the balls to stand up on stage for this intense 90 min battle….many of you would not do this! It takes someone special to get up and perform to your best abilities with all that attention and pressure – and both achieved that throughout the tournament..
Thanks again for coming along last week and anyone who is interested in entering next years series – email us
# Attach images of work and info on you
studio@secretwars.co.uk
Big up
t
http://www.monorex.blogspot.com
http://www.secretwars.co.uk
March 5th, 2008 at 4:28 am
I’m gonna have to take a break from my full time job of leaving worthless comments on this site as I have to go suck some dick. My Dad’s just come round.
March 5th, 2008 at 4:29 am
Rematch? Odisy vs Wen —- In Southampton / 1 OFF CASH PRIZE, WINNER TAKES ALL…
Thoughts…???
March 5th, 2008 at 5:28 am
Berk annoyed – yeah OK finished.
March 5th, 2008 at 5:30 am
Jeez people, does it really matter who won?!Personally i thought Odisy’s bit was better…BUT…there was good drawing, good music..and i got wasted.what more could you want?
March 5th, 2008 at 5:38 am
one thousand pounds.
March 5th, 2008 at 5:41 am
ha..fair dinkum, but i meant the other 498 people there.not the artists.
also, apparently the person with the loudest clap in the world, is a 7 year old girl.i suggest employing her abilities next time.if there is a next time.
March 5th, 2008 at 7:21 am
Well, what can I say. I was at the final and I have to say I preffered Odisey’s piece, not only had he created a brilliant piece of art, but he’d done it well within the 90 min, he got up and caused a stir (pointing at his watch and yawning). It was a real show and the best final I’d been to.
But saying that, the colleague I came with preferred Wen’s piece and for ages we argued about why one was right and the other wrong. I’m sure a DNA test will prove a match with Andy from Edding, but why they preferred the other is completly down to them. People love screaming fix when the person they want to win loses, but the truth of the matter is we gain nothing from it. It’s not until William Hill and Ladbrokes start taking bets on the winner for me to even start considering fixing the southampton wars.
That’s why we have judges and a crowd vote. Granted the crowd vote is more of a popularity contest and if I’d been up on stage, battling, I would have drawn a stick man, safe in the knowledge that my entire family shipped over from Morocco would help me win the comp. That’s why I’ve never liked resorting to the decibel reader. But as Terry mentioned, we’re still learning and adapting.
I think a rematch, on neutral ground would be a wicked idea (southampton). Not so much a way of finding the better artist, but a way to help mend bridges. The decibal reader could still be used, but only as a way to get the crowd involved and gage who they prefer. The reading will not be taken into account and the decision will rest with 3 industry recognized judges.
what d’ya reckon?
March 5th, 2008 at 9:00 am
a rematch might not have a lot of benefit. this whole thing has drawn too much attention to it’s self so theres already gonna be tons of bias towards both sides.
the whole idea of the rematch is insinuating that everyone believes odisy was robbed and he should of won. (which is probably a fair statement, his piece was alot more consistent.)
The crowd vote wasnt such a great idea either— whoever go’s first on the crowd vote is at a disadvantage cos the fans of the other know how loud to shout the next time round. both had different styles and people are entitled to their own opinions. if there is a rematch fair play but if these guys get a rematch everytime theres a shock winner people are gonna be drawing for the rematch card.
money’s always gonna be a motivating factor for some but at the end of the day it should all be about style and the whole thing should be intrinsically motivated. documenting it in a competion has its exposure advantages as well as its disadvantages -contamnetating the authenticity of ’street’ art. – if the retirements were spray paint on wall im pretty sure the vote would of gone the other way… real wars and real battles are thought on the streets… ‘you may have won the battle, but you won’t win the war’
March 5th, 2008 at 10:33 am
there should be another 500 for the runner up…both finalists should be rewarded for getting that far in the comp.
fuck it man. money is the root of all evil. lets all get drunk.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:32 am
Hey Odisy, if you’re that pissed about losing to wen because his caricatures are poor in comparison, that’s because he didn’t pull the same fucking character face out for pretty much every goddamn round of the competition. How about you show a little variety in your pieces next time and you might stand a chance.
I digged that face the first time I saw it, but after the 3rd time it gets a bit repetitive, and then to bunch it in twice in the same piece is just lame man.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
I didnt manage to get to see the final live, but have checked out the pics. And my first impressions were that Odisy’s piece was a lot better than Wen’s, I admit I do like Wens style but Odisy did smash it, thought it had a lot more funny jibes and just stood out more, dunno if Wens looks better in real life or what…..but from the pics I’d have gone for Odisy.
As for the whole competition being Anti Graffiti battles, is this favouritism towards illustrators? I may be a bit biased here but surely writers need this opportunity more than a comic book writer?
March 5th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
it’s so easy saying it on the internet isn’t it Reddy, coward.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Im with Reddy as well, I saw Odisy’s piece at the quarters, the semi and the final. His style is the nuts and the character he pulled was quality, but it was exactly the same type of charcter in every round, he didnt get my vote purly of lack of originality. And personally i think he should show some respect Wen there is no use crying about it now he needs to grow the fuck up if this the way he is going to react to loosing.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
odisys interlect and abillity cripple wens piece. His “punch lines” are significantly more effective then a kick in the balls. Comments above (blatently not writers)- that character is fresh/creative and its a trade mark. wens piece could have been by anyone were as odisys piece is his all over. Gutted odisy, robbed
March 5th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
okay people, i am gonna try and find a way to lock this down now, its good that people have had their say, but i dont want it to be some forum ranting kinda thing, this is my work/professional site after all- and y’all need to respect that, which most people have, but its done now.
I think that we have had most opinions aired and its been a fair few days. If I cant lock it, I will just delete any extra comments as its not getting anywhere new. Cheers DD.